EPISODE 21: Overcoming Perfectionism

STACY: Welcome back to Autoimmune Adventures. Today we're going to tackle the beast of perfection. We want to help all of you as well as ourselves to understand the importance of self-awareness and self-kindness. We need to accept that imperfection can be beautiful. But first, let's have our Good Bit Minute.

A man named Robert, or Bob Ross, a former television repairman, found himself unemployed. He started painting landscapes as a hobby to relieve stress. He initially planned to sell his paintings to supplement his income. However, his unique style and calming demeanor caught the attention of a local PBS agent, and the station picked him up, which led to the creation of the iconic show, "The Joy of Painting."

His accidental foray into television turned him into a beloved figure, inspiring millions to pick up a brush and embrace their creativity. And the thing we love so much about Bob Ross is that his theme was, "there are no mistakes, only happy accidents." And it's an important thing for us to remember this as we dive into the idea of perfection.

In today's social media driven world, there is a constant pressure to present a perfect image. The prevalence of perfectionism in our society really has a huge impact on our physical and mental health, not to mention straining our relationships. It can negatively affect our productivity. It can limit our creativity. In general, it makes a mess of us.

The picture perfect media that we often consume leads us to have really unrealistic expectations, a sense of inadequacy and a lot of other stigmas and traumas that come with that. I myself had a boyfriend that basically told me he couldn't date me, because I didn't fit the way I should look. I didn't fit the mold.

The negative impact of perfectionism is especially significant to those of us with autoimmune disease because we just can't do the things that other people can. We can't run three miles comfortably, at least most of us can't. We can't do a lot of the things that a lot of people can. So we want to discuss the impact of that desire to be perfect, that desire to meet the expectation of the world and the reality of what we have to contend with.

BECKY: One of the things that we hope you guys understand - because I think it's something we all have to come to terms with - the three of us really came to terms with that when we decided to do our podcast in the sense that yes, I know that we're doing a podcast, so you're not seeing us maybe face to face and we get a little more comfortable. Maybe we're doing this in our pajamas, but still the fact that we chose to be vulnerable enough, recognizing that we're going to not say things perfectly. We're maybe going to repeat ourselves. We're going to throw the ums and the sos in there.

All the things that maybe as we're listening to it ourselves are frustrating, but we decided that we were going to overcome that because we felt like the message was more important.

STACY: And because we knew that editing software was a blessing. I'm just going to be real here. I edit out a lot of our inability to keep it together, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still very much there.

BECKY: I think for us, because all of us have a little bit of perfectionism in us, this was a very healthy way to try and help us still move forward with this podcast that we were wanting to do and be able to share those thoughts with other people.

ALYSIA: I feel like we all have, have that imposter syndrome a little bit where we're like, "Oh, but we might not do this perfectly, or we might not sound like, you know, we know what we're doing or we know what we're talking about." And guess what? We are just sharing what we know. We're not professional anything, and we're not going to do it perfectly. I was working on this episode on what we were going to talk about, and I was like, wow, I really need this myself.

This is stuff I need to implement in my own life a little bit better. That's why we decided to do a podcast on this because we all three struggle with this. And I think it would be fair to say that a lot of those struggling with autoimmune conditions would struggle with perfectionism as well.

BECKY: I think so, too, because I think we're all back to the wanting to be more than sometimes we are physically able to be.

Let's talk a bit, let's talk for a minute about what perfectionism is. So let's take a moment to define perfectionism a little bit. It's a multidimensional personality type characterized by a relentless striving for flawlessness or excessively high standards, as well as negative self-talk based on the inability to meet those standards.

And we don't want to confuse perfectionism with healthy striving, right? Because some level of perfectionism can actually be motivational and cause us to give our very best to things that matter to us. Whether it's a project at work or maybe a piece of art that we're working on. What we're talking about is having unrealistic expectations of yourself.

Procrastinating or making slow progress because you feel like you can't do it perfectly, exactly the way that you want to and being overly critical of yourself when you don't live up to your own high standards.

ALYSIA: I think it's good to talk about maybe where perfectionism comes from. It's I would say that most therapists would say it's rooted in a deep seated fear of failure and a need for external validation.

I know that that hits with me. That resonates with me. I don't like to say that it does. I don't like to say that I have a fear of failure. I don't like to recognize that I do have this need for external validation, but I do, I really do have it. It's there. If you're not sure that perfectionism is something you struggle with, we're going to do a little self-evaluation exercise.

I'm going to just ask, ask you some questions, answer them honestly to yourself and really think about them.

• Do you ever feel like you set standards for yourself that are just too high to reach?

• How often do you find yourself being really hard on yourself when you don't meet those expectations?

• Do you ever feel like you have a narrow view of what success looks like, but a really broad idea of what failure looks like?

• Are you scared of looking silly or making mistakes in front of other people?

• Do you ever put things off or avoid finishing them because you feel like they won't be perfect?

• Do you ever catch yourself comparing yourself to others and feeling like you're not measuring up?

• Is it hard for you to accept compliments or praise from other people?

• Do you struggle with asking for help or letting others take over tasks, because you want to do it all yourself?

I feel so called out right now.

BECKY: All of those questions are great. The one that I want to point out too, it's not just comparing yourself to others. I had a friend point this out to me and it is so true. Usually when we compare ourselves to others, we're comparing our worst to their best, is what we tend to do when we do comparisons. I mean, comparison in general is not a healthy thing, but especially the way that most people tend to compare themselves to other people.

ALYSIA: That reminded me, as you were saying that, I really feel like it would be applicable to say, do you compare yourself before autoimmune disease, how you were living or how your body worked or who you were, whatever.

• Do you compare yourself now to who you were before your diagnosis?

I don't feel like that's a fair comparison to make personally. And there's a few more questions about if this perfectionism may be impacting your life.

• Does trying to be perfect add a lot of stress, anxiety, or even make you feel down on yourself?

• Do you feel like your perfectionism gets in the way of your relationships, your work, or your social life?

• Do you often feel totally overwhelmed or drained?

• Is it hard for you to just relax and enjoy your free time without feeling guilty or restless?

• Do you ever skip sleep or neglect your health or give up other important things just trying to do something perfectly?

I'm reading these out loud. I'm like, Oh, wow. This really is more of a problem for myself than I thought. I'm glad we're doing this.

STACY: So if we look at the physical toll of perfectionism on our body, it's not a small thing. The most obvious factor here is the stress and anxiety that are caused by that perfectionism.

We already know that stress weakens our immune system, and we don't need any help with that, and it messes with your sleep which keeps you up and causes fatigue, and then, of course, you become irritable, have more trouble concentrating, and we don't need any help with that either. It causes digestive issues, muscle tension, headaches, eating disorders, high blood pressure, and heart disease.

Now, here's the thing that pings off of me in this moment. I just am like, all of these are things that autoimmune disease already exacerbates. It already increases. And then a tendency toward perfection makes it even more dangerous. And I don't use the word dangerous lightly here. Things we're talking about are dangerous.

A really bad case of perfectionism over the holiday season is going to flare you, right? Making sure you have the perfect 4th of July picnic is going to flare you. Settle into the fact that it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to look like something on the Better Homes and Gardens front page.

ALYSIA: Yeah, as we're recording this today, it is the week of Thanksgiving and I am I'm hosting, I had a kid with a birthday this week, I'm trying to get ahead on Christmas, I'm working on this podcast, I'm working on another side hustle I've got going on, and I am trying so hard to have all my ducks in a row, and I'm trying so hard, because I'm the mom, and I make crap magical over the holidays, it's my job, it's what I do, I try as I might, I can't pass that off to anybody else. I can't, and I have a problem asking for help because I am a control freak with perfectionism. I just might listen to this all as soon as we've recorded it over and over, like internalize it for myself. But yeah, like, just like Stacy was saying, especially in these busy seasons of life or when there are special occasions coming up, this is where that perfectionism can really come back to bite us.

BECKY: I would agree. And I am the same way. I love the holidays. And like Alysia said, as a parent, you try to feel like you're trying to make things magical. And sometimes I recognize that I go beyond what is really a good idea for me physically.

So this year I have tried to embrace doing less. Sometimes I'm successful. Honestly, sometimes I'm not. I feel like Alysia, after we record this, I'm probably going to need to listen to it myself and try to better internalize it. But it's so important because like Stacy was talking about the things that the stress causes of perfectionism, it really does exacerbate so many of our autoimmune symptoms. It's a nasty little cycle. You have perfectionism that leads to stress and then to illness. And then it's like, you're starting all over again, and you say you're going to be better. So you set yourself some expectations to improve. You fail, you beat yourself up, you stress out again, you messed up, you feel worse both physically and mentally, and we have to find ways to break free from the cycle, so let's talk about a few ways that we can do that.

ALYSIA: So talking about overcoming perfectionism, the first thing I think that we want to try to do is challenge those perfectionist thoughts and beliefs, and in order to do that, you have to be conscious of them. You have to catch them. And that is harder said than done, I think, because when it's something that you just do all the time, when it's just part of your personality, it is really hard to catch those thoughts and to change them. So when you catch them first, start by being conscious. Second, catch them. Third, label them. Label them when you catch them. Say, this is perfectionism. This is not helpful to me. Some examples might be, you might hear yourself say something like, "Oh, I really can't make a mistake with this project." And catch yourself, label it, edit that thought to say something like, "I can and probably will make mistakes, but I'm going to give it my best shot and see what I learn, see how it turns out."

If you're beating yourself up, this is one I do. I've tried so many times to go sugar free and I just keep failing. Why am I even trying anymore? Stop, rephrase, say something like, "I recognize that I didn't do what I needed to, to reach my goals, my dietary goals, but I'm going to try again."

"I knew I wouldn't be perfect, but it's not going to stop me from continuing to try." And the last suggestion I would give, this one's my personal favorite. If you think to yourself that I'm not going to do this right now because I can't do it perfectly, then my personal favorite mantra that has been hugely helpful to me is done is better than perfect.

There's a lot of power in that. Done is better than perfect.

STACY: I think that we just don't set realistic goals, and then we have these terrible expectations, or we get to a place like Alysia was saying, where things just aren't getting done because they aren't getting done perfectly, so they're not getting done.

We have to remind ourselves that if we want to get something done, If it's important to get it finished that we need to go back to those tools that we've been talking about, break up our big goals into smaller, actionable steps, plan it out in advance. You know, that Christmas is coming plan for that. You know, that the next big holiday is Valentine's day, and maybe you're the one in charge this year.

But whatever the case, if you pare it down into smaller goals, then that action can take place. It's easier to attain the things you're trying to, and then you can celebrate all the little victories, which is kind of awesome. And when you manage your own expectations for yourself, you're going to be able to ask yourself, would I hold my best friend up to the standard that I have created for myself?

Would I be down on my spouse if they weren't meeting the expectations I'm placing on myself? Would I be upset with my child for not doing things the way that I want them done? We grant the people we love a whole lot more grace than we grant ourselves. We need to practice some self compassion We have to speak kindly to ourselves and not say things to ourselves that we wouldn't say to our closest loved ones.

We suggest you create some affirmations or mantras and that you use them. Things like "progress over perfection."

"My flaws have no effect on my value as a person."

"I will take action even if it is imperfect."

"I am letting go of the need to control everything." I know that there are certain things I'm never going to be able to do perfectly like Martha Stewart or, or whoever's cooking the turkey, you know what I'm saying? But I, I set these really ridiculous expectations for myself, because I just can't handle it.

ALYSIA: I just realized I have a funny conversation that my husband, and I have had a handful of times in our 24 years of marriage, and he asked if I'm worried about something, he asks me what I'm worrying about, what I'm stressing about.

And oftentimes it's something I have no control over. And I say, "Well, why don't you worry about this?"

And he's like, "I have no control over that. Why would I worry about something I have no control over?"

And I laugh. And I remember saying to him, "I don't worry about the things I have control over, because I have control over them."

You know what I'm saying? Like I have control and I trust that I'll get that done or whatever. Like I have control. It's the stuff I don't have control over that causes me stress and anxiety.

And he's like, "That is ridiculous. That's so crazy." I'm like, yeah, you know what? Being married to somebody who is such a logical thinker has been a huge blessing in my life, because I have been able to let go of some of those things I have no control over.

STACY: So, I have to let go of the need to control everything, especially the things I can't control. And I have to remember that I am enough just as I am. I am okay. I am still doing good in the world. People still love me. I'm not a horrible person. I have a lot to give and I should grant myself the grace to live within my abilities and my strengths will come through. And on days when I'm having an autoimmune flare and they can't, I'm really good at napping. I can find perfection in napping if nowhere else.

BECKY: It's true. Guys, we need to build resilience. We need to embrace our imperfections, because we all have them, and we're always going to have them. That is part of the human condition. Perfection is unattainable for all of us, and we need to embrace it. Like Stacy said, maybe there's little things you can be perfect in, Embrace those too if it makes you feel better, but in general, we all have imperfections and that's, that's just part of life. Making mistakes is a natural part of life. And we should see and use setbacks as an opportunity to grow. One of the things I love, and I hope I'm quoting it right, Elon Musk, great inventor, and he's done some really cool things with as far as space travel and electric vehicles and everything.

I believe his mantra is "fail fast and fail hard" or something like that [“Failure is an option here. If things are not failing, you are not innovating enough.”]. But his idea is that he recognizes that you're gonna fail, you learn from it, and you move forward. And I think that's part of the reason he's been such a great inventor and has been so influential. And I think that that's a really great mantra that we could have too, the idea that we recognize, Hey, especially when it's new things, this might not be something that we get perfect, and certainly if it's the first time we're ever doing it, we're probably not going to get it perfect, but just expect that, learn from it and move forward.

ALYSIA: That made me think of something when you're talking about we're all human and, and perfectionism is unattainable. Just a little bit of wisdom from my grandma-in-law, my husband's grandmother, she was a very talented seamstress and quilter, and she would make beautiful, beautiful wall hangings and she would make one for each of her grandkids as they got married. And so we received one. My husband grew up in Wyoming. It's Indian paintbrush, which is the state flower of Wyoming. And it's gorgeous. I love this wall hanging. I remember looking at it and seeing the pattern, the fabric she used for the flowers and for the design border. And I noticed. That there was an imperfection in the pattern and I thought, well, that's really interesting. I wonder, did she know that she messed the pattern up?

So I asked her one day when she was over for a Sunday dinner or something. And I, I asked her, you know, "Hey, I noticed that this wall hanging you made for us. Hey, why did you do that? I'm just curious. I noticed this. Did you do that on purpose?"

And she said, "Yeah, I, I do that on all of my pieces. I always purposely put an imperfection in them."

And I thought that was very interesting. I said, "Well, that's really interesting. Why would you, why would you do that?"

And she said, "Well, because art is a reflection of humanity, and humans are imperfect."

And I have never forgotten that some 20 something years later. And I thought it was really beautiful. And I loved that. And it has made me appreciate imperfections everywhere I see them, except in myself. Um, it's made me appreciate imperfections in other things that I notice, and I, I think it's very accurate. I think it was a very wise piece of advice from a very wise woman.

STACY: I love that so much. And it reminds me of the fact that I love trees and every single tree you will ever come across is imperfect. They look glorious. They look wonderful. They're amazing. Nothing about the imperfection of a tree lessens the amazing beauty that it gives the world.

BECKY: Similar to what Stacy was saying about trees, we get a lot of wildflowers all year long in our fields on our little farm and I love to photograph them. And it's the same. No two flowers, even if they're the same type of flower, are going to look the same. There are imperfections in all of them, but that does not keep them from being beautiful. And often it adds to their beauty. We need to take those kind of thoughts as we're enjoying the world and looking at things, we need to take that and internalize it more, I think, with ourselves. A couple of other tips that maybe can help you overcome your perfectionist tendencies. Try practicing time management and prioritizing tasks.

We've talked about using Google Calendar before. I was actually just telling my sisters earlier today. I don't think I could be on time or get anything done if I didn't have my Google Calendar because I just forget too many things now.

Practicing mindfulness and learning that it's okay to say no. We've talked before a lot about not giving yourself too many things to do. It's okay to say no. Recognize what your physical and emotional and time limits are.

Remember that self care is always going to be a journey. It's not a destination. It's something you're going to want to and need to do all the time. So be patient with yourself. Celebrate your progress, no matter how small. Remember, it's all about going in the right direction. It's not about how fast, and it's moving, not the destination. We're just trying to move in a general direction.

ALYSIA: So before we wrap up, we wanted to mention a couple of resources that we have found to be really inspirational and encourage you to check them out. Um, one of my favorite people that I follow their work is Dr. Jennifer Finlayson Fyfe. She is a therapist, she's a wealth of knowledge. She is very...sometimes I have to listen when I listen to her, I have to pause and really think about what she's saying, because she has got so much profound information that she shares, and a lot of it is free resources through her website podcast she's been on and such. So my very favorite podcast of hers that I've listened to is called "The Perils of Perfectionism," and we'll share a link to her material.

She has that, that one, and she has, I think, three or four other podcasts about perfectionism or relating to perfectionism. Check her out. She's amazing.

STACY: And then finally, we want to mention the wonderful Brene Brown, who we love so much. She has a whole book on the subject called "The Gifts of Imperfection," and it's worth every penny.

I suggest you get yourself a paper copy and mark it up with notes because there's some really good stuff in there. I actually got the audio book and the paper copy so that I could listen to Brene read it while I was following along and making notes. And it made a huge difference in my ability to calm down.

So we're going to share one of our favorite quotes about perfectionism from Brene Brown. Brene says, "Perfectionism is not about healthy achievement and growth. Perfectionism is the belief that if we live perfect, look perfect and act perfect, we can minimize or avoid the pain of blame, judgment, and shame. It's a shield. Understanding the difference between healthy striving and perfectionism is critical to laying down the shield and picking up your life."

ALYSIA: I love that. We just want to close with the promise that there is so much peace to be found. In releasing yourself from your own unfair and unrealistic expectations. We know that it is something that you, you have to work at. You have to make yourself aware. You have to consciously choose to change your inner dialogue and your physical and your mental health depend on it. We know you guys can do it. This one I feel like everybody needs to hear, so we hope you enjoyed this.

Please like and subscribe. You can find us on autoimmuneadventures.com and share it with us, your thoughts. We love to hear your thoughts. We love to hear your suggestions.

Remember, your disease does not define your life. You do.

HELPFUL LINKS:

https://finlayson-fife.com/podcasts/conversations-with-dr-jennifer/post/the-perils-of-perfectionism

*The following Amazon link is an affiliate link. Using this link will not cost you anything extra, but as an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

"The Gifts of Imperfection" by Brene Brown - https://amzn.to/4h7uP0R